jgarnett has changed the topic to "0) what is up 1) IP update (progress) 2) FM branch (progress!) 3) GC now? 4) CRS and EPSG fight"
jdeolive sure, i can speak of FM
jgarnett how is that!
jgarnett first of all what is everyone up to?
jgarnett I am trying to keep up with justin...
rgould i'm still trying to finish up the 2.2-RC3 release
jdeolive I am trying to keep up with myself
rgould i am almost done, but need to finish up the javadoc release (martin is helping) and figure out maven's crazy assembly plugin (which involves reading the source code for the thing because there is literally no up to date docs)
jdeolive crap, that sucks
jdeolive i am looking to use that for geoserver
jdeolive the assembly plugin
jdeolive that seems to be a pain about some of the maven stuff
jdeolive no docs
rgould i managed to make a binary release okay
rgould the problem is that geotools is so multi-project based
jdeolive so is geoserver now
acuster I'm trying to get a handle on CRS in 2.2, in FM+JTS and in FM+GeoAPI (without learning anything about FM). I'm also trying to figure out SP objects in R so we can krieg from uDig through geotools to R
jgarnett OK
jgarnett (that was a joke, trying to parse your sentence...
jgarnett lexical error, abort abort!)
jgarnett SP ? in R?
acuster SP are root geometric object in the R statistical language
jgarnett Ah R! The stats package?
acuster point, polygon, etc
jgarnett ha ha ha - cool I caught up with you.
jgarnett Sorry U
jgarnett nifty.
jgarnett Gabriel what is up?
jgarnett or rather agenda items is 0) what is up
groldan hi all, catching up on the email list looks meeting time has moved?
jgarnett geoserver one is a stone cast upon the waters...
jdeolive howdy groldan
jgarnett good thing justin can tell us.
jdeolive shall we move onto 2 ?
jgarnett well unless gabriel wants to "share"
jgarnett 1) IP update
jgarnett FrankW ping?
jgarnett I have tried making a little sense out of the progress of the Iccubation Commitee, they are in the throws of doc writing...
jgarnett I have also made it most of the way through the module/api
jgarnett one I am done we will be through most of the big ideas in geotools, but only a small way through the code.
jgarnett I should not be discouraged, this is the first time I have mde progress in a while, but I am not sure if we are just wasting OSGEO's time at this rate.
groldan sorry, not much to share by now, just waiting on a couple projects to become reality
jgarnett and i really would like to work with them to get the IP check done (it holds up some of the geotools friends in industry)
jgarnett Since the geotools community is not really moving on this I may just start tracking this stuff on the OSGEO site the way FrankW always wanted
jgarnett but I would much rather hack the FM branch with justin...
FrankW pops back in.
jgarnett The really big news is this - and it is more of a community thing then an IP thing:
jgarnett http://docs.codehaus.org/display/GEOTOOLS/Module+Matrix
jgarnett Has everyone seen this page? It rocks ...
jgarnett it shows what is actually good in geotools.
jgarnett I got no feedback on my "star system"
jdeolive yeah the page is great, gives people an idea of the state things are actually in
jgarnett but IP check is worth a start and is a "first class" concern for me, and hopefully a gatekeeper for modules being included in the library.
jgarnett I admit the paging is confusing as all heck to edit
jdeolive ha, very true
jdeolive as i found out today
jgarnett if you guys have time I would love it if you could look over the star ratings at the bottom of the page.
jgarnett Are they fair?
jgarnett okay then
jgarnett moving on...
acuster likes the pretty colours
FrankW I like the idea of specific "star" items. If left to be subjective it could get ugly.
jgarnett Yeah Feedback!
jgarnett Note I needed a different scale for API then for plugins.
jgarnett right
jgarnett hi simboss feeling happy?
jgarnett good to see you
simboss not too much, actually fighting with JNI
jgarnett that explains everything
jgarnett we were going over the IP update (I got most of the module/api done)
jgarnett and I was fishing for feedback on http://docs.codehaus.org/display/GEOTOOLS/Module+Matrix
jgarnett I think one thing the pages shows is how much we need your work from the GC branch
jgarnett 2) FM branch (progress!)
jgarnett over to you jd man
jdeolive cool
jdeolive well, i am happy to report the first data store over to FM is shapefile
jdeolive passing tests and everything
jdeolive i think that qualifies for a star
jdeolive with the help of jody over the last week
jdeolive we have pretty much nailed down most of the new api and things are going farily smoothly
jdeolive I have been working on a rough data store port guide
jdeolive http://docs.codehaus.org/display/GEOTOOLS/FM+DataStore+Port+Guide
jgarnett heck justin FM is a star, it means they match a published specification !
jdeolive it has the plugin matrix of what has been ported and what state it is in (nowhere near as fancy as the module matrix)
jdeolive thats about all i got
jdeolive i would like to start tagging in volunteers soon
jdeolive i am glad acuster is giving the docs some scrutiny
jgarnett acuster do you have a link to your docs? Or are they all still uner your copyright?
jgarnett I am going to start taking the middle section, documenting feature. and would like to run the two code examples "side by side".
jgarnett So justin, rather then asking for voluneers could we update the project plan to show current progress?
jgarnett please.
jgarnett those plans will be used by the community to evaulate who goes first GC or FM
jdeolive ok
jdeolive sounds good
jgarnett and will be used by Refractions and TOPP in planning.
jgarnett (of course I wrote the page but darned if I can find it)
jgarnett anyone?
jgarnett Perhaps we should organize the FM pages together
jdeolive http://docs.codehaus.org/display/GEOTOOLS/Feature+Model+Game+Plan
jgarnett confluence now lets us "tag" things...
jgarnett nifty
jgarnett so I will update for a moment, you want to mark time and try and explain generics to acuster?
jgarnett Or talk about anything else to do with FM?
jgarnett (that was another joke)
acuster jody: you know what I'm working on docwise: the CRS system. (1) get/create a CRS (2) get create a tranform (3) use the transform on coordinate/geoms
jdeolive not much, except for that it has been nice to have someone else looking at code
jdeolive i have let the api and usability side of thing slip a bit
jdeolive mostly because i have been orphaned
jgarnett yes I do acuster, and thank you very much.
acuster http://docs.codehaus.org/display/GEOTOOLS/Programmers+Manual+Prototype
jdeolive but with some good qa from Jody things are getting whipped back into shape
jgarnett acuster: I think simboss and you were coming at the CRS problem from different sides.
jgarnett (going to update that page now, back in 2 secs)
acuster yeah, it's under my copyright and I won't change it until it moves from Prototype
acuster simboss: what are you doing with CRS?
simboss for the moment, nothin
simboss I am just trying to get people to talk to each other
acuster wait, that was my side
simboss and solve the problem of having different CRSs from different authorities
acuster I'm just slowly learning enough to write basic, basic docs.
simboss and above all
simboss the problem that what seems to be EPSG:CODE in OGC spec is something different inside the EPSG database
acuster yeah, you seem to have the problem well defined.
simboss I did not understand the objections you made in you r last email
simboss you were talking about hiding something
acuster I was trying to get you to think from the newbie's point of view
simboss could you explain?
acuster they come to the authority system without knowing anything about the axes being reversed
acuster so OSG in a name doesn't have that connotation for them
acuster so I thought you should think about whether you are trying to convey the authority of the data source (and use OSG) or the content of the data (and use LatLong or LatFirst or some such)
acuster but you understand the problem much better than I do
acuster so I assume you will find a decent solution
jgarnett acuster I do not think a newbie is any better off then an expert
simboss OSG=?
jgarnett it is one of those things where the "data" is wrong
jgarnett (and you know how much good blaming the data is, data is more expensive then programs)
rgould buggers off.
acuster the thing other than EPSG
jgarnett (aside: justin can you review http://docs.codehaus.org/display/GEOTOOLS/Feature+Model+Game+Plan )
simboss let's put it this way
simboss If it were up to me
jgarnett (I tried to show the hours it took me to confirm your work, and my planned work for milestone 1)
simboss I would love seeing everything easting,northingm or call it lon,lat
simboss because that is the way people expect it
simboss and most important
simboss tools expect data to be
acuster withdraws his objection since he assumes it's already being accounted for.
jgarnett except new tools expect you to do what their projection says to do.
simboss try to define a WGS84 CRS Lat,Lon in ArcMap
simboss and you will see what I say
simboss of course
simboss we need not to be too tight
simboss to support past errors
simboss but we cannot just forget about the rest of the world
simboss besides
simboss I can tell you
simboss that handling these issue inside GeoServer
simboss right now
simboss is a real pane
simboss we have to reverse everytihng
simboss CRS
simboss envelopes
simboss everything
acuster that seems broken, I'll have to think about it as I figure out the referencing code
jgarnett Question for FrankW - what do other projects do about these kind of issues?
FrankW mapserver - avoids wms 1.3.0 specifically to avoid the axis changes.
FrankW GDAL's GML driver ... is not really "correct", but I think GML does coordinates systems so poorly I don't worry about it much.
FrankW I'm not sure if MapServer WFS is non-compliant or not, It certainly doesn't do anything special about axes now.
jgarnett and as a library we just need to give each user
jgarnett enough rope to hang themsleves which ever way they want.
simboss (which is what I am trying to do... )
jgarnett (and this is where acuster and his docs become important - providing advice through one of the most annoying glitches in our metaverse)
acuster but we can colour the ropes (ie. have parallel systems for one versus the other)
jgarnett acuster, I wrote some long email/article thing - can we grab that for later. It may be the best we get, I do not think anyone offical wants to touch this problem
jgarnett We could even make the "wrong" rope hard to get at
acuster we need to do this also for the transforms which, in EPSG, can have 2 versions
jgarnett GeoTools, making stupid things hard.
jgarnett (and hard things stupid?)
jgarnett okay I will stop.
acuster let's move on
jgarnett 4 mins
jgarnett we should
jgarnett http://docs.codehaus.org/display/GEOTOOLS/Feature+Model+Game+Plan
jgarnett shows us a lot of the way there
jgarnett with some big jumps to get past - XML and JDBC
jgarnett so hopefull nex week will be full of the same great progress
jgarnett 3) GC now?
jgarnett well?
jgarnett Now or later ...
jgarnett email votes say now, I saw votes but not enough volunteers.
jgarnett simboss?
simboss sorry, JNI is killing me
simboss basically
simboss right now the main issue going on
simboss is this crs thing
jgarnett okay that is an answer, stay tuned next week, for a JNI free simboss
simboss things are moving along pretty fast though
simboss I will update the plan next week
jgarnett If needed let me know, perhaps Justin and I can put a couple hours into this CRS thing, do some work on trunk.
jgarnett cool.
AlFa hi
simboss we have to involve martin
simboss with some directions from him
simboss we could be done
jgarnett spending a couple hours to do things would be better then the days one can spend on email on this topic.
acuster martin is really taking a week to work on the GC merge?
simboss in 1 or 2 days of work
simboss he said two
jgarnett wow, his vacation time as well.
jgarnett crazy man, has anyone ever met him?
jgarnett i would buy him a beer.
acuster you know the french and their vacations...
jgarnett no I don't.
acuster besides they only work 35hours a week
jgarnett moving on...
simboss (he is not french, isn't he canadian?)
jgarnett 4) CRS and EPSG fight
jgarnett oh we did that one!
jgarnett done! meeting done on time! woot
jgarnett sorry please, the floor is open.
acuster I thought he was at montpellier working for the french scientific research arm
jgarnett I thought he was somewhere in the South Pacific
acuster jgarnett: good job on closing the meeting!
acuster ou est Mr. Martin?
jgarnett yeah yeah, I seem to be hack happy today. Justin has me all worked up over the FM branch.
acuster are there docs somewhere on filters and expressions?
jgarnett You know Marin appears in our history page
jgarnett and our brouchers
jgarnett and they are on the wiki...
jgarnett our community does remember, even if we do not know what happened to James.
jgarnett http://docs.codehaus.org/display/GEOTOOLS/History
jgarnett 2002 code from the SeaGIS project
jgarnett (http://seagis.sourceforge.net/)
jgarnett wonderful how old projects never die
jgarnett I can imagine code archeologiest hunting over this stuff
jgarnett (probably to try and disprove patents)
jgarnett a few more decades of the internet and open source and the patent system will fix itself...
jgarnett rgould logs?
jgarnett anyone posting logs?
jgarnett Nifty screen snaps of Martins work
jgarnett http://seagis.sourceforge.net/screenshots/experimental/index.html