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{excerpt:informal breakout session on GC
MatthiasB If things have officially finished: May I ask why some people have so bit problems with Java5?
MatthiasB Is it just compatibility with other/older projects?
Jody_ More then half the prople work on J2EE
Jody_ and that does not do Java 5 yet
MatthiasB I see.
dblasby people are still using 1.3
Jody_ One thing I would ask you to do is read http://docs.codehaus.org/display/GEOTOOLS/Development
jmacgill particualry true for geoserver as it is server side
Jody_ It outlines all sorts of stuff, like when the meeting times are, how to submit a patch etc...
rgould Jody_, you mentioned we should update the RoadMap page?
Jody_ I imagine you will submit a few SLD patches until the maintainer gets sick of it and nominates you for commit rights.
Jody_ Yeah.
bnordgren is simboss or Martin here? I wanted to follow up on the GridCoverage sidebar...
Jody_ Here is the Java 5 part - http://docs.codehaus.org/display/GEOTOOLS/Language
Jody_ simboss is here
simboss % am here
Jody_ and I should actually talk to both of you
bnordgren Uh oh.
Jody_ We had a meeting with OSSIM earlier today (should of brought this up in the meeting)
Jody_ and they want to play with us at some point.
AlFa Hi all I'm Alessio
simboss cool...
bnordgren who are they?
Jody_ And are also interested in impelemnting GridCoverage and getting into GeoServer.
bnordgren hi alessio
Jody_ http://www.ossim.org/tiki-index.php
simboss very cool....
AlFa Hi Bryce
bnordgren sweet!
Jody_ They do amazing raster stuff, and have a 3D viewer that was big at OSG'05
simboss I already took a look hen I was up in norway....
simboss OSGPlanet
simboss or something like it...
Jody_ So yeah, they have a release to do and will talk to us in about 3 weeks time.
simboss ok
Jody_ And best part yet - they know of JAI and are not against playing nice at that level.
simboss can I do something like a summary of what me and alessio are doing right now?
simboss (cool)
Jody_ I was a bit worried that it would be a culture clash.
bnordgren yup. (excellent)
simboss because it seems like we are not working on geotols
simboss bu it is not like that
Jody_ For all our talk of going out and working with other projects, it is nice to see it start to happen (even if we did not make the first move).
simboss ok
Jody_ Sorry simboss - I am done now.
simboss cool....
simboss first of all
simboss I talked to my boss and he let me free to use the name of our contractor
simboss so nobody ahs to wonder why we work with geotools and geoserver!
simboss (smile)
Jody_ I dont think it occured to me to wonder (smile)
simboss well somebody ask...
simboss asked
simboss (sad)
bnordgren ok, who's your contractor?
simboss ops
simboss ;_0
simboss we work on ajoint project
cholmes Do we get a prize if we guess it?
simboss from various NATO research centers
dblasby you were outed on the udig list I think a few weeks ago...
simboss because it seems that NATO is interested in OGC tech
simboss ah ah
simboss yeah
simboss a girl who worls for me
simboss she was not supposed to do that
simboss I got a bit nervous about it
simboss so now
cholmes You guys forgot to change the headers of one of source codes in wcs. And I remembered you originally showed up in geotools with nato address....
simboss yeah
simboss before they told me not to do so
simboss ok
AlFa no problem .. Unclassified projects
simboss now the interesting thing
simboss basically
simboss during june we have been testing
simboss 8 hours a day
simboss geoserver and geotools
dblasby ... wow, we're like the web sherlock holmes...
simboss in a live expertise
simboss experiment
dblasby (you didnt shell geoserver did you?)
simboss (shell? what do you mean?)
bnordgren yeah?
simboss after that month we stopped coding as hell, we sit down and we started to think how
simboss to make things better
simboss I have beenn studing JAI and Coverage packages
simboss very deeply
Jody_ (I am surprised you guys lasted as long as you did/do with GridCoverageExchange)
simboss andalessio have been thinking about ingestion engine and 3d-4d dataset
simboss now he is working on the design of the ingestn engine and wms neted layers
simboss I am trying to get REAL gridcoverage support
simboss which means
simboss pyramids, mosaics, more reader and writer
simboss as I wrote in the email I exchanged with martin
simboss basically
bnordgren are we moving to ISO19123 first or is this more support for GCE?
Jody_ simboss would you like to be included the next time we talk to OSSIM?
simboss that is one ofthe reasons why
simboss we are not commiting
simboss code
simboss since
simboss if we move tISO19123
simboss we do not want to rewrite vode
simboss that is why I would like to talk to martin
Jody_ We are not very attached to GCE - and I think that is the direction martin wants to move in.
Jody_ There is one major problem
Jody_ ISO is not open. And is very hard for an open source project to do.
MatthiasB Why?
Jody_ If volunteers cannot download and look at the spec they can only work against the interfaces that someone who read the spec made for them.
bnordgren DId ISO19123 ever get adopted by OGC?
Jody_ Volunteers don't want to pay ISO to play.
Jody_ Not sure bruce how to we check?
simboss Well
simboss i read the iso19123
rgould what is 19123?
simboss as a private copy
simboss (the new specification ISO is releasing for coverages)
rgould ok
bnordgren ??? It was just the last hangup martin reported.
simboss I have tcheck first
simboss but I think that OGC should adopt it
simboss and then
simboss we should be able to use it for free
simboss like the others adopted ISO specifications
simboss or anyway
Jody_ I am more then happy to go to something, but I just wanted to let you know that if it is ISO it all comes down to how much of the spec you can place in interfaces (and not get in trouble for).
simboss agree
Jody_ In anycase how are you finding the ISO spec? Is it clear?
simboss we have to check
simboss Well
simboss i read it quickly
simboss and It wass not so clear to me
cholmes Is it an abstract spec? If so I think we could just have the interfaces 'inspired' by it. Enough to keep Martin happy to endorse the changes, yet the interfaces would be open for us.
simboss Martin should have a deeper understanding of it
simboss he already wrote some interfaces out of it
simboss anyway
simboss I will take some more time to read it again before next irc
cholmes I just want something that meets the needs where gce is failing, and that keeps Martin happy, and working on it, which it seems like 19123 is a good candidate for.
cholmes So does this mean NATO is joining the OGC?
simboss hoping that MArtin will pick up a new time for the (in)famous GridCoverage breakout meeting
Jody_ lol
simboss i do not think they will do that officially
cholmes Oh yeah, one thing on that - Jody_ do you need to be at this meeting? If Jody's not there that opens up a lot more times.
AlFa Chris ... the life at NATO is not so happy (smile)
simboss I do not even think I can talk about that at all! (smile)
Jody_ huh? Please don't hold it up on my account. I also don't mind attending at some stupid hour if I have to.
Jody_ I am more interested in simboss and martin getting their game on.
bnordgren I do I need my beauty sleep.
Jody_ And please don't keep GridCoverageExchange alive on my account.
simboss I think martin as some good ideas on how to proceed
cholmes That's what I thought - simboss, just figure out when you and martin can meet. Oh right, bryce would be good to have there too...
simboss that is why I stopped coding as hell as We have been doing so far
simboss in these 5 months
cholmes But probably best to get the two of you on the same page, and the rest can read the transcripts and talk on email.
simboss weMe and Alessio made enough experience on coverges to relly be of help
bnordgren copy that. My motivation to pour a lot of energy into a temporary API is fairly small.
simboss (even with udig which seems to need an injection of good raster suport)
cholmes And the word is that gce just simply won't meet the 4d type support? It sounds like new interfaces are definitely in order.
AlFa we play with a lot of raster data everyday
simboss well
simboss in my opinion
simboss gce
simboss is not suitable when working with mothan 2 dimension
simboss readers and writers just do not suite!
simboss we need something more
simboss and I think doing that without standards would be an error
Jody_ gce is all about finding data - and it is not good at it. The readers and writers were martins idea (he wanted to stream the content from the web or something).
simboss the reader and writer concept itself is great
Jody_ I have no problem sticking with standards for the data representation, and doing our own thing to find the data.
simboss JAI itself is based on that
Jody_ (see DataStore API (smile) )
cholmes simboss - are you guys doing 5d? Did you get my cc today? Some guy going for a project to do open source WCS that supports temporal and z parameters. Found geoserver and mapserver lacking and was thinking of writing his own.
simboss if you study JAI deeply you see that GridCoverage from OGC has the same skeleton of JAI
simboss which means
simboss mainly 2D
bnordgren 5D typically decomposes to "variable" + 4d (3 spatial + 1 temporal)
simboss we never thought about 5d
simboss but itonce you go for 3d and 4d
cholmes Yeah, I agree with Jody_, the standards are a great starting point, but you don't need to stick to them absolutely
simboss whould not be a big problem
simboss i agree
simboss but we have to find a way to reuse the big amoutn of cde we have
simboss the Coverage support that martin built
simboss is simply wonderful
cholmes Cool. Respond to the email and tell him what you guys have planned, hopefully can steer him to contributing instead of writing from scratch, if they get it.
simboss and there are already classes for 3d and 4d
simboss i will
simboss we were talking about it with alessio earlier
simboss we need someone to ping Martin for the (in)famous meeting
simboss that would realy help to get started
simboss SpatioTemporalCoverage3D.java
simboss CoverageStack.java
simboss are working
simboss and are able to handle
simboss stack of GridCoverages2D
bnordgren let's email him then. I'm between you two, so anything acceptable to you is going to be good for me.
simboss therefore
simboss we are able to support 3d 4d
simboss 5d
simboss nd
simboss we needto work
simboss on the reader, writer and discovery part for data being ND (N>2)
simboss I already eailed him
simboss but I got no answer
simboss bryce could yo email him again?
Jody_ aside: this is more productive then the meeting - I am going to leave the agenda thing alone for a couple of months.
bnordgren anyone got a phone number? (smile) Yeah. I can email him.
simboss going back to ossim
Jody_ You guys should package up this IRC and send it to martin.
simboss when do you intend to talk to them again jody?
bnordgren Not sure how to do that. My first IRC.
Jody_ three weeks time, they have a release they are working on.
Jody_ You can cut and paste it into an email - real low tech!
Jody_ Are you using OSSIM right now simboss?
simboss nope
simboss I just ran into it
simboss like two months ago
simboss while looking around the net
simboss since
Jody_ Ah okay.
simboss I was interested in working wth gdal
simboss and I stated talking with warmerdam about a port
simboss but then I stopeed
Jody_ Jesse_Eichar was very impressed with it.
Jesse_Eichar That I was.
simboss they should have a JOSsim
cholmes I was as well.
simboss but at the time it was not public yet
Jody_ We bothered them about it, apparently the autogenerate it and it will be part of that three week release thing.
simboss cool
cholmes Gvsig guys sound like they're finally opening their raster support.
simboss yeah
simboss we talked to them
cholmes jgdal, jmrsid, ect.
simboss igdal?
simboss jgdal
simboss who's doing so?
cholmes gvsig guys. They've already done it. They're opening it in like 3 weeks or something.
cholmes It's GPL, so you an only use it in geoserver...
Jody_ simboss gvSig has been sending me and chris private emails on this topic.
cholmes But it should be worth checking out.
Jody_ We are trying to get them to release source code (should not be hard for a GPL product?)
simboss jgdal would be cool
simboss but if it is not possible to have tat in geotools
simboss it might be useless....
cholmes Frank's not super happy with it. He says because it's incomplete. I've not looked at it. But it's also probably to some extent since I don't htink he's a big GPL fan.
cholmes Yeah, we'll have to investigate...
simboss anyway
simboss first thing
simboss is to talk with marting about general directions
Jody_ simboss: mind if I send the last bit of the IRC to martin?

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